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Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF - стр. 1

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Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

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Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« : 02.03.2013, 20:47 »

я откатал на Мобил 1 почти 10 000 км...у меня его не съело ни грамму..А Total, Elf, Dexelia как себя показали в аппетите по маслу?

Тема разделена, начало дискуссии исходит отсюда: глохнет на холостых кседос 6 link external

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Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« #1 : 02.03.2013, 23:00 »

я откатал на Мобил 1 почти 10 000 км...у меня его не съело ни грамму..А Total, Elf, Dexelia как себя показали в аппетите по маслу?никак) у меня масложора нет у мотора вообще =) ни грамма не долили..все было на верхней отметке даже при замене...это моя 3-я замена масла и дроссель впервые такой грязный =( *

Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« #2 : 02.03.2013, 23:09 »

а как ты крутишь двигатель? до каких оборотов, с какой периодичностью?

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Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« #3 : 03.03.2013, 08:45 »

а как ты крутишь двигатель? до каких оборотов, с какой периодичностью?по городу т.к. скользко щас, то обороты редко поднимаются свыше 4 000 ...по трассе почти при каждом обгоне и в гору до 6500 докручиваю... короче в неделю 2 дня только лихачу, остальные 5-ть спокойно езжу =) *

Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« #4 : 03.03.2013, 13:48 »

а я кручу на любом отрезке чистого асфальта, т.е. несколько раз в день )) в итоге получается до литра от замены до замены (5w30)

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Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« #5 : 03.03.2013, 18:23 »

а я кручу на любом отрезке чистого асфальта, т.е. несколько раз в день )) в итоге получается до литра от замены до замены (5w30)Какое масло и присадками балуешь свой моторчик? У меня почему то начал подкушивать моторчик, может поспособствовало этому помывка масло отделительных пластин? Кручу мотор в городе не более 3500, но иногда со светофора(вынуждает показать ушлёпок на новом форде или приоре, на что способна даже старая мазда) до 5500-6000 *

Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« #6 : 03.03.2013, 18:31 »

масло - ELF 5w30, присадка - ХАДО раз месяцев в 8-10. есть подозрение, что расход масла из-за "эльфа", который не выдерживает регулярных критических нагрузок... недавно залил на пробу TOTAL 5W30 QUARTZ FUTURE 9000. посмотрю, как на нем будет

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Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« #7 : 03.03.2013, 18:40 »

Ездил больше года на 10-40 Elf расход - 1л (+-200гр) на 7 т.км. Перешел на Comma 5-30 а расход такой же... прям удивительно  *

Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« #8 : 03.03.2013, 18:53 »

и какой из этого следует вывод? *

Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« #9 : 03.03.2013, 19:55 »

На первых 3000 км я подлил около 1.5л., возможно или скорее всего:1. сопливил масляный фильтр(не сразу обратил внимание на лужу под машиной)2. во время смены масла изначально залил на холодную по мин.Доливал на холодную, когда было уже на кончике щупа и почему то вошло около 1.5л. и стало между мин. и макс. Прошёл уже 6000км. На днях ещё подлил гр.200 Масло 5W40 ликви-молли.Что случилось или могло? Во время прежних замен, так не кушал моторчик? Масло то же самое, промывку не делаю, присадки не лью.

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Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« #10 : 03.03.2013, 21:15 »

у меня всегда был такой расход масла, после капиталки мотор пробежал на настоящий момент тысяч до 100. расходование не увеличивается. я склонен считать, что это допустимый расход для таких режимов езды и такого жидкого масла. потому как, например, LIQUI MOLY OPTIMAL Synth 5W-40 имеет вязкость при +100°С — 14,3 мм2/с, а у ELF EVOLUTION SXR 5W30 вязкость при +100°С — 9,6. при +40 соответственно — 85 и 53. когда горячее сливаю - оно просто вода 1. сопливил масляный фильтр(не сразу обратил внимание на лужу под машиной)если лужа образовывалась самотеком, без давления, то представь, сколько вытекало при езде. ото и расход оттуда был *

Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« #11 : 04.03.2013, 10:12 »

Недавно товарищу вскрывали клапанные крышки, и в укромных уголках отверткой выкалупывали мазут и грязь. Масло слилось просто как нефть. Было залито 10-40 Эльф, пробег 5000км на высоких оборотах преимущественно. Крайне не рекомендую ездить на полусинтетике.

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Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« #12 : 04.03.2013, 13:37 »

Мой "товарищ" - сосед залил на зиму 15W50 в хонду сивик  95г.в. Жалуется что со всех щелей потекло, но двигатель ровнее стал работать и по его словам "попёрло". Это как ?

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Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« #13 : 04.03.2013, 13:41 »

Жалуется что со всех щелей потеклопохоже присадка какая-то вымылась. или масло не качественное. но честно говоряна зиму 15W50это капец. при температуре -20 масло станет пластилином, ниже - пластмассой. а вообще, надо смотреть допуски цивика и лить туда такое, какое предписано. разумеется, с учетом реалий (степень износа мотора) *

Расход масла на моторах Mazda KL, KF

« #14 : 04.03.2013, 13:53 »

это капец. при температуре -20 масло станет пластилином, ниже - пластмассой.

mazdaservice.org

Распиновка блоков Mazda: KF, KL, FS, FP. Прошивки - стр. 6

Вот касаемо адресации  для KL и KLZE отсюда и разные модификациии прошивок.

Well the VRIS tables for the non-ZE KLs looks like this:

00 10 10 10 10 10 10 00 10 10 10 10 10 10 00 00 00 00 10 30 00

As for the fuel maps, which one do you want? The RPM vs LOAD enrichment table is the most useful, but it varies from ROM to ROM so finding it might be a little tricky depending on how your ROM compares to my '93.

20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 24 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2b 2b 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 32 32 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 35 35 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 2a 37 39 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2a 2c 38 3c 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2c 30 3b 43 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 26 2e 33 41 4f 36 36 37 20 20 20 20 20 20 2a 31 37 48 5b 36 36 37 36 32 34 33 20 20 2e 36 3e 4e 5b 36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b 36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b 36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b

And for timing there are a few as well, but I haven't figured out how they are all used. There are tables for RPM, 2 for load, transmission type, coolant temperature, air temperature, etc.

That is because there is no single table for spark. Instead there are a bunch of tables, each of which contributes different factors to a total and the result is then transformed and applied to the output. Without knowing how the values are combined, having the contents of the tables isn't too useful. And having only one or two of the tables is of marginal as well, especially since they are all tuned for the stock engine and most of your engines are not stock. That said, the main load vs RPM table is as follows:

55 7f 9f b5 be c1 a9 b4 c0 cd cd cd d3 ef 70 a3 a7 b5 be c1 a9 b4 c0 cd cd cd d3 ef 70 a3 a7 b0 be c1 a9 b4 c0 cd cd cd d3 ed 70 83 95 9d ab b4 a6 b0 ba c7 c8 ca ce e7 63 70 86 8e 9b a7 9c a5 b0 be c1 c4 c7 e0 56 69 7e 85 92 9c 93 9e a9 b7 ba be c1 d8 4c 63 79 7f 8a 94 8f 9a a4 b1 b1 b8 bb d0 42 61 75 7d 86 8f 8b 97 a1 ac ab b2 b6 c8 38 5f 72 79 82 8d 8a 95 9f aa a8 ac b2 c0 2d 5b 70 77 81 8b 88 94 9d a6 a5 a6 ae ac 22 4f 60 72 7e 88 87 94 9c a0 a0 9e a2 98 22 4d 60 69 6f 84 84 92 92 99 9c 95 95 98 22 4d 60 69 6f 84 80 8e 80 90 96 95 95 98 22 4d 60 69 6f 84 80 8e 80 90 96 95 95 98 22 4d 60 69 6f 84 80 8e 80 90 96 95 95 98

For this table, and the fuel enrichment map above, the dimensions are load and RPM. According to my notes the load is the vertical dimension, and the RPM is the horizontal dimension. There are letters because it is written in base-16 (hexadecimal), as I noted above.

And a coolant temp vs load table for adjusting timing(different ones for ATX vs MTX, this is MTX):

76 76 76 2b 2b 2b 2b 56 56 56 2b 2b 2b 2b 4d 4d 4d 2b 2b 2b 2b 4d 4d 4d 2b 2b 2b 2b 4d 4d 4d 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 2b 22 1a 1a 1a 2b 2b 2b 1a 1a 1a 1a

There are another dozen or two tables of various kinds, mostly 1 dimensional but a few more 2D maps. For squirters, considering these tables will be calibrated completely differently from what the MS needs you are probably best off plotting these results and using the shape of the resultant graph to guide your development of your table. The individual values themselves will be completely useless to you

EPROM tuner jam packed with info ________________________________________Please note: i cannot be held responsible for any use/misuse of the information provided below. before you change anything have a clear understanding about converting hex to decimal. To be able to modify an eprom you will need to remove it from your ECU (soldering/desoldering equipment required), also a burner to program a new EPROM. this is not a process to be rushed! If you are not confident in what you are doing seek help. You can cause a lot of damage if you make a mistake.

an emulator allows you to change all the values in the ECU while driving at the click of a button. i believe MS is only needed on heavily modified or boosted applications. All explanations will be based on the stock KL59 ECU (as that is my ECU), all US eproms should be if not exactly the same then extremely similar. The KL31 (KLZE) maps are in slighly different locations and you will need to look for them yourself to find them (shouldnt be too hard after you have read this).

STEP 1: introductionProbe eproms are stored on a 256k eprom, you can read the files from your EPROM using a eprom reader (google). most files are usualy saved as a .bin extension and should all be 32KB in size for a 256k eprom. These files contain hex values (0-255 in decimal = 00-FF in hex) there aremany simple free programs online available that you can use to modify the values (search "hex editor") any time i use 2 numbers followed by a "H" that means the number is in hexidecimal

now, hidden within all these bytes are many maps for fuel, timing, vris etc and without a clear understanding theres simply nothing you can do to modify anything, below is some of the information you will need, all the map locations and how each of them are used and can be modified, examples of converting a DE ECU to a ZE will be the most usefull and therefore that is what i will use in some ofmy explanations. I will not provide tips on custom tuning as each car is different and will react differently to changes made.

STEP 2: What you needOk to get yourself started on TUNING (not just changing from aspec to jspec) you really need an emulator or eprom programmer (emulator is 1000x better) and either a wideband or access to a dyno (personally a dyno gives you a permenant accurate graph that can be better tuned from, my car is yet to be tuned on the dyno. you can also add detenation/knock detection sensors if your changing your timing.

if you want to do it the hard way (may work out cheaper if you have access to this equipment) then buy a reader/burner for reading your stock eprom then you will be able to use that file to change the values as needed. to do so you will need some software as mentioned earlier. then when you have made the changes you can burn the new file onto a 256K eprom and try it out. the problem with this is you either buy lots of chips or use a UV eraser to blank them (EPROMS are UV erasable, EEPROMS are electronically erasable) personally this is a pain especially due to the location of the ECU which is one of the many reasons i chosen the emulator path.

obviously a computer (pretty much anything will do) if your using an emulator a laptop will be the way to go and most new emulators run through USB. so you can mack changes using the laptop while driving (i suggest uploading while stationary for safety reasons, if you know what your doing then its fine to do while driving)

STEP 3: MAP locations and changes

*** VRIS RPM/open & close tables: ***

begining at hex address 00BE (the XX represents hex data bytes inbetween that are ignored, dont change the XX values)56 XX 68 XX 88 XX C8 (there is also a VRIS rpm value below this but it is not used, its 3CH on the DE)

the hex values represent the rpm accurate to31.25RPM (trust me you wont need to tune it more accurately then that)the formula is: RPM = Variable * 31.25(the variable must be converted to decimal in this formula, you can use windows calculator to covnert this)

the VRIS RPM table looks like the following,

so for the KLDEbit = rpm10H = 5003CH = 187556H = 2687.568H = 325088H = 4250c8H = 6250

and for the stock KLZEbit = rpmxxH = ignorexxH = ignore10H = 50082H = 4062.599H = 4781.25DAH = 6812.5

so if you wanted to change your stock DE points to ZE points you would do the followingchange the value in address 00C2H from 68H to 82Hchange the value in address 00C4H from 88H to 99Hchange the value in address 00C6H from C8H to DAH

guess what? you thaught that was it but your only half way there! you may have changed the RPM values at which they open andclose but the ZE reacts differently to throttle position then the DE. theres 1 more step.

VRIS open/close table:this table is pretty simple, 00H = both VRIS plates closed, 10H means #1 is open, 30H means both are open. there are three linesto the table, each for a certain throttle position.

the table on the DE begins at address 0DBEH

00H 10H 10H 10H 10H 10H 10H00H 10H 10H 10H 10H 10H 10H00H 00H 00H 00H 10H 30H 00H

the KLZE looks like this

00H 00H 00H 00H 10H 30H 00H00H 00H 00H 00H 10H 30H 00H00H 00H 00H 00H 10H 30H 00H

now as you can see, the ZE table is the same no matter the load. if your getting the hang of things you will notice that eachbyte represents the previously set rpm values. so for example on the ZE the last three bytes on the end of the table are:

#1 open at 4000rpm#2 open at 4800rpmboth close 6800rpm

now there you have it, you've now setup ZE vris on your file

The KLDE RPM vs LOAD enrichment map looks like this: (starting at location 3DDH)20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 2420 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2b 2b20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 32 3220 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 35 3520 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 2a 37 3920 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2a 2c 38 3c20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2c 30 3b 4320 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 26 2e 33 41 4f36 36 37 20 20 20 20 20 20 2a 31 37 48 5b36 36 37 36 32 34 33 20 20 2e 36 3e 4e 5b36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b

note: top left = min load/rpm, bottom right = max load/rpm

*** rev limiter: ***on the KL07 ECU the rev limiter is at address 6FHfor the KL59 ECU the rev limiter is at address 74Hi believe the rev limiter cuts spark only on a different cyl each time.there is also a lower limit for hystersis so the limiter must drop below that rpm before it removes the cut, im not sure at this point in timewhere this is located, i would assume it would be approx 1-200rpm lower then the stock fuel cut.

you can change the limiter by setting the bit as shown below in the table (note any hex value will work the table is just a guide to show the relationship)

hex value/rpm limitF0H = 7500E0H = 7000D0H = 6500C0H = 6000B0H = 5500A0H = 500090H = 450080H = 4000

in the stock eprom the rev limiter is set at F0 (7500rpm)the bit before this is for if there is no/faulty ECTS, it is usually set at 5500rpm

*** checksum: ***as far as i have seen there is no checksum nor has there been any side effects of making changes to the ECU, there are ways to calculate the checksum but theres no need for an explanation.

THE LAST WORD:please know im not against MS i just believe in many probe applications its overkill and the car can run better on a well tuned stock ecu. it still needs the same amount of tuning/tweaking as anything else. sure you can eliminate the VAF, i can do a MAF conversion thats almost just as good (flow wise). the extra map points in MS just mean theres more points to tune, that does not make it better, you might gain 1whp for approx 200rpm but is that worth the extra effort? the way the standard map flows is detailed enough IMO and only things like coming onto boost or n2o injection would really benefit from a more detailed map as they can be tuned closer to the point of rapid change.

what do i know? well, not much to be honest, im an electronics tradesperson and tuning is only a hobby thats been needed in my group of friends (all running heavily modified high powered cars, especially in comparison to mine). if you have any further questions or i have missed something please feel free to PM me. if any information above is incorrect please let me know and i will fix it asap.

at one stage at a mass dyno i had the quick chance to take some fuel out of a map, my A/F ratio was approx 13:1 and by adjusting the fuel map by 2H i managed to get an extra 2wkw (3whp approx), thats as far as ive dyno tuned at present i will post more dyno tuning info when my car is completely ready for the dyno.

happy tuning people.heres the stock DE fuel map:

KLDE 9320 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 2420 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2b 2b20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 32 3220 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 35 3520 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 24 2a 37 3920 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2a 2c 38 3c20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 2c 30 3b 4320 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 26 2e 33 41 4f36 36 37 20 20 20 20 20 20 2a 31 37 48 5b36 36 37 36 32 34 33 20 20 2e 36 3e 4e 5b36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b36 36 37 36 32 34 33 33 31 34 3b 3e 4e 5b

thats 13x13, i believe MS is 16x16? (guess) and your right about needing to learn more to tune but with software setup correctly its a sinch.

one day when i dyno tine my car i will post before and after, begining with a DE ECU modified with stock KLZE maps (fuel/timing/vris) obviously going from the DE maps there will be much more to gain.

i cant post links of where to get emulators but i use a moates ostrich, which is cheap and excellent for what it is, the only downside is it does not have maptrace but to be honest i get by fine without it. (maptrace shows you the byted being read by the ECU live) so for example you can see exactly what point on the fuel map the ECU is looking at when ideling or at [email protected]

ill post it when i get home, theres lots of timing maps, ill post the three ones i play with.

ok timing maps are as follows:located at 05BB-060E from memory

76 76 76 2B 2B 69 69 69 2B 2B 5C 5C 5C 2B 2B 8C 8C 8C 2B 2B 8C 8C 8C 2B 2B 5C 5C 5C 2B 2B 5C 5C 5C 2B 2B 5C 5C 5C 2B 2B 5C 5C 5C 2B 2B 44 44 44 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 2B 22 1A 2B 2B 2B 1A

KL31 starts from 5baH

thats the coolant temp vc load which is a lookup kinda table for the two timing maps (for low and high octaine apparently) this is the main load vs rpm table from my gatherings:

55 7f 9f b5 be c1 a9 b4 c0 cd cd cd d3 ef70 a3 a7 b5 be c1 a9 b4 c0 cd cd cd d3 ef70 a3 a7 b0 be c1 a9 b4 c0 cd cd cd d3 ed70 83 95 9d ab b4 a6 b0 ba c7 c8 ca ce e763 70 86 8e 9b a7 9c a5 b0 be c1 c4 c7 e056 69 7e 85 92 9c 93 9e a9 b7 ba be c1 d84c 63 79 7f 8a 94 8f 9a a4 b1 b1 b8 bb d042 61 75 7d 86 8f 8b 97 a1 ac ab b2 b6 c838 5f 72 79 82 8d 8a 95 9f aa a8 ac b2 c02d 5b 70 77 81 8b 88 94 9d a6 a5 a6 ae ac22 4f 60 72 7e 88 87 94 9c a0 a0 9e a2 9822 4d 60 69 6f 84 84 92 92 99 9c 95 95 9822 4d 60 69 6f 84 80 8e 80 90 96 95 95 9822 4d 60 69 6f 84 80 8e 80 90 96 95 95 9822 4d 60 69 6f 84 80 8e 80 90 96 95 95 98

ill neaten all this up later into my original post when i get more time.

Thanks a lot Stoker100 for answer me.

So I'm working in a ship that I bought (KL07 for Probe 24v), and I see all you explain in the file, but..

Quote:Originally Posted by stoker100on the KL07 ECU the rev limiter is at address 6FH

hex value/rpm limitF0H = 7500E0H = 7000D0H = 6500C0H = 6000B0H = 5500A0H = 500090H = 450080H = 4000

Apparently in my ship, the rev limiter (at address 6FH so), is "F5", it's very strange ?? Tell me if I'm wrong.

 

ok if the formula is the same then F5 = 7656rpm which isnt too weird i guess. if you change it and take it for a drive you will find out (set it to 80H or something lower)

the setup on the right is just an idea for a usb i/o addition that allows you to read inputs from things like vris solenoids and switch things, currently on my car MSD is switched and i can use it as an immobilizer if need be (wouldnt change any maps or anything).

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